As such a degree is becoming worthless, and its more important to achieve a credible result, so that you can study a PhD or masters.
The purpose of a degree is to give the ability to take information from many sources, and turn that into understanding. Its not what you learn, but how you do it.
Douglas Karr
· 1 year ago
Jez,
That's an outstanding point. If everyone in the country got their degree - then a degree becomes the bare minimum again. Perhaps jobs that don't require a degree will require one when everyone has one.
Doug
Rick Cockrum
· 1 year ago
Hi Doug,
If you look at your own reasons that higher education is important, you'll see that none of them include learning how to think.
The closest one is #2, which gives you the raw materials with which to think. The reply to Deepak Chopra's question which you mentioned was, I think, addressing this point. Intuition needs raw materials on which to work. The more you know, the more likely it is to happen.
Is college a way to pass on the generations current ignorance? Looked at negatively, yes. Looked at positively, it is a way to pass on the current level of knowledge. If you're lucky, you find teachers and mentors who inspire you to go beyond that current level of knowledge.
For most people, though, college is a glorified trade school, a way to make connections that will further their career, and a halfway house between childhood to adulthood.
Douglas Karr
· 1 year ago
Hi Rick,
I didn't put it down as a reason because I really don't think it's what is achieved with modern post-secondary education. I honestly have no more faith when hiring a college graduate than I do hiring a high school graduate that they have the creative skills that are needed to succeed in today's workplace.
I've said before that I want both my kids to get their bachelors (at minimum); however, I don't believe that getting the diploma is going to assure them of success. I only believe that it will insure them from failure.
Doug
Caleb
· 1 year ago
You said the magic word: creativity Using the imagination/creativity properly is the way to learning and inventing and that doesn't take secondary education. But I think most of all,we must learn to ignore negative emotions which block the way to proper thinking which blocks the way to proper/positive action.
Mike Schinkel
· 1 year ago
I have come to believe that the most valuable thing that one can get out of college is something didn't include. I think the best reason to go to college is to compete and collaborate with peers, And the better the school the better the peers as one strives to the level of their peers. Especially when those peers can from different experiences and/or different cultures than me.
I got far more out of studying with other students and being involved in extracirricular activities with them than any other aspect of college.
Unfortunately there is a large segment of our population (~42%?) that fears colleges, especially the better colleges, because they force students to question their own predjudices and preconceived notions. Far too many people would prefer to just believe what they want to believe and thus surround themselves with others who enable their myoptic attitudes as they restrict their world view. After all, the best way to believe what one wants to believe is to ensure that there is no evidence to the contrary.
If we are going to move forward as a country, as a world, as a human race, people are going to have to get past this pathological need to stifle anything that contradicts their rigidly-held world view. Unfortunately, based on what I've seen happen over the past decade, I don't hold out much hope that most people will actually put aside their clinched ideologies for that to actually happen.
Douglas Karr
· 1 year ago
Mike - that's an excellent point. I come from a diverse family and we've lived all over the country - but for many, this is the first time that young adults are put into contact with other cultures beyond their neighborhood.
I honestly don't hold out much hope either. I think people vote with the 'wind' and don't put any thought into it anymore. The 2 parties have mastered manipulating the lemmings.
Mike Schinkel
· 1 year ago
I don't think its the parties so much as the people. Especially people who gather in groups and special interests like 501(c)s and "think tanks." It will never change until the people wake up and realize they are being played for pawns.
Part of my point was more that the people has such ingrained ideologies that they beg to be manipulated. It's not the party's faults they pander to people's ideologies and pit them against "the others" to gain their power. The parties have just learned how to achieve their goals, to get elected.
"Liberal" and "conservative" are some of the current polarizing labels where groups manipulate people by preaching ideologies and demonizing some idealized and easily identified other group that in many cases doesn't exists. These people use fear and divide by religion, race, sex, sexual preference, culture, geography, nationalism.
When I was young we had "the cold war" but after that went away I thought we had a new world order that could operate on commerce and live in peace. My god naive I was.
Bill
· 1 year ago
Dad,
I thought you'd enjoy to see who else had this opinion...
"... unfortunate national traditions which are handed on like a hereditary disease from generation to generation through the workings of the educational system."
All Comments
I'm not a fan of our current educational system. I agree completely with the notion that it is just one generation passing ignorance to the next.
I believe we need to be teaching our you to THINK. To often we are taught simply to remember and recite.
Not going to go into a rant into politics, but our current government (http://www.labour.org.uk/education) want 50% of 18 year olds to achieve a degree at university (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widening_participa...) ... The problem with this?? It lowers the value of a degree.
As such a degree is becoming worthless, and its more important to achieve a credible result, so that you can study a PhD or masters.
The purpose of a degree is to give the ability to take information from many sources, and turn that into understanding. Its not what you learn, but how you do it.
That's an outstanding point. If everyone in the country got their degree - then a degree becomes the bare minimum again. Perhaps jobs that don't require a degree will require one when everyone has one.
Doug
If you look at your own reasons that higher education is important, you'll see that none of them include learning how to think.
The closest one is #2, which gives you the raw materials with which to think. The reply to Deepak Chopra's question which you mentioned was, I think, addressing this point. Intuition needs raw materials on which to work. The more you know, the more likely it is to happen.
Is college a way to pass on the generations current ignorance? Looked at negatively, yes. Looked at positively, it is a way to pass on the current level of knowledge. If you're lucky, you find teachers and mentors who inspire you to go beyond that current level of knowledge.
For most people, though, college is a glorified trade school, a way to make connections that will further their career, and a halfway house between childhood to adulthood.
I didn't put it down as a reason because I really don't think it's what is achieved with modern post-secondary education. I honestly have no more faith when hiring a college graduate than I do hiring a high school graduate that they have the creative skills that are needed to succeed in today's workplace.
I've said before that I want both my kids to get their bachelors (at minimum); however, I don't believe that getting the diploma is going to assure them of success. I only believe that it will insure them from failure.
Doug
Using the imagination/creativity properly is the way to learning and inventing and that doesn't take secondary education. But I think most of all,we must learn to ignore negative emotions which block the way to proper thinking which blocks the way to proper/positive action.
I got far more out of studying with other students and being involved in extracirricular activities with them than any other aspect of college.
Unfortunately there is a large segment of our population (~42%?) that fears colleges, especially the better colleges, because they force students to question their own predjudices and preconceived notions. Far too many people would prefer to just believe what they want to believe and thus surround themselves with others who enable their myoptic attitudes as they restrict their world view. After all, the best way to believe what one wants to believe is to ensure that there is no evidence to the contrary.
If we are going to move forward as a country, as a world, as a human race, people are going to have to get past this pathological need to stifle anything that contradicts their rigidly-held world view. Unfortunately, based on what I've seen happen over the past decade, I don't hold out much hope that most people will actually put aside their clinched ideologies for that to actually happen.
I honestly don't hold out much hope either. I think people vote with the 'wind' and don't put any thought into it anymore. The 2 parties have mastered manipulating the lemmings.
Part of my point was more that the people has such ingrained ideologies that they beg to be manipulated. It's not the party's faults they pander to people's ideologies and pit them against "the others" to gain their power. The parties have just learned how to achieve their goals, to get elected.
"Liberal" and "conservative" are some of the current polarizing labels where groups manipulate people by preaching ideologies and demonizing some idealized and easily identified other group that in many cases doesn't exists. These people use fear and divide by religion, race, sex, sexual preference, culture, geography, nationalism.
When I was young we had "the cold war" but after that went away I thought we had a new world order that could operate on commerce and live in peace. My god naive I was.
I thought you'd enjoy to see who else had this opinion...
"... unfortunate national traditions which are handed on like a hereditary disease from generation to generation through the workings of the educational system."
-Einstein, 1931
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